WHAT FOLLOWS IS WHAT I WROTE IN THIS PICTURE'S DEVIANTART POST DESCRIPTION IN 2014. IT MAY NOT STILL BE RELEVANT TODAY.
So, when i thought this guy up (a French-Canadian Street Fighter character who's a lumberjack with a defensive charge-grappler moveset, sort of like a combination of DeeJay & E.Honda but with some other subtle changes), i started out with this guy's special moves, but today i decided to make a little drawing of him in photoshop to make it easier to imagine. Hope you guys like it!
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Original Forum Post:
So, i said in the "Make a character based on yourself" thread that i had an idea for a Canadian Lumberjack character. Now, this character is basically very similar to E.Honda in terms of special moves, but he has a few subtle differences that would make him slightly more interesting in some ways... For a long time i have wished E.Honda's Hundred Hand Slap was a quarter circle command or something equally easy (i play on pad, and i have trouble doing piano inputs, which are necessary for the harder Hundred Hand Slap combos)... That little change would make me drop T.Hawk immediately and start maining E.Honda... But if i'm thinking up changes for a character, i might as well make him his own complete original character, right?
Basic move attributes are based on Super Street Fighter 4: Arcade Edition unless otherwise stated.
Rose's normals (basically shoto normals with a command slide and a long-range heavy kick. Lots of special cancellable moves, because its more satisfying that way, for me anyways)
DeeJay's Super (except instead of rhythmic kicking it's savage drunk handswipes sorta like Luigi's running attack in Smash Bros)
Dan's Ultras (basically, a short range attack/grab like Dan's Ultra 1 and a defensive projectile like Dan's ultra 2)
DeeJay's Projectile and anti-air Upkicks (these are the focus of his gameplay as a defensive character. The reason he is able to shoot a projectile is, he's used his axe in the Canadian forest so much that he can chop the air itself with his bare hands. His projectile is actually even slower than DeeJay's so that he can be more defensive or even set up pressure on wakeup)
Dan's Dankyakyu kicks (but less safe on block and less damage. His main combo ender and pressure tool. Being able to pick between 1, 2 or 3 kicks based on which button is awesome so i'm keeping that the same as it is with Dan)
T.Hawk's command grab (but with him rolling his opponent like a quebec log roller instead of spinning him in the air like t hawk. Also, less range and damage than t.hawk's grab)
Leaving the opponent far away after a grab would actually be advantageous for this lumberjack character because he's mainly a defensive character just with grappler abilities. I like the idea of a character similar to deejay or guile also having a special move for ending combos as well as a command grab. It's sort of like an even more defensive version of E. Honda, as i said before.
Also, i think his name should be Pierre.
Editor's Note: What follows is actually a pretty valid complaint based on what i said so, i included it here:
SOMEBODY FROM THE FORUM wrote:
I don't think normals such as Rose's would do with a lumberjack. He should get normal moves of his own. Also, lots of special-cancellable moves would be asking for less damage since he could heavily capitalize on just one heavy kick. And if it has that much range, his pressure (with Projectile OR Dan Kick) would be extreme, even more so in the corner.
I don't really like the idea of a defensive character, but I also think that your character half-fails at being defensive, especially with his :kick-hard: special cancel antics. As for being even more defensive than a defensive character, this is not a good idea. I'd suggest a buff to Honda rather than make a different character.
Also, why try and give purposed combo-enders to characters like Guile and Dee Jay? Wonder why they don't have them? (Dee Jay even has his :joystick-charge-left: :joystick-right: :kick: so he's out of the picture)
I sound extremely depreciative but the fact is you're only thinking of a character with a buff and an outward image you like. I'm afraid you're straying on the Gary Stu line here, Bibby.
Here is my response:
when i said he should have Rose's normals, including the long range kick and a lot of special cancellable moves, i didn't actually mean that the heavy kick was cancellable from long range... Rose can't do that in SSF4:AE, she can only cancel her heavy kick when it's the up-close version... i wanted Pierre to be the same in that area... i guess i didn't really make that very clear... I genuinely apologize for that because that might have tinted your view of my character...
Also, i don't mean any offense, but i don't understand what you're saying about him being a Mary Sue kind of character in any way other than the heavy-kick cancellable thing that was just a misunderstanding... were you saying replacing E.Honda's headbutt with a projectile & his main combo tool with a slightly easier combo tool is also overpowered? i mean, you gotta remember: E.Honda can combo from his Hundred Hand Slap into other things (including a jab into another Hundred Hand Slap or even a super combo...) Dan's Dankyakyu kicks not only end the combo (when done on the ground at least, i think), but you can only combo into it from heavy normals or some rare medium normals (in SSF4:AE2012 at least)... i'm guessing the only mediums that Rose has that would combo into dankicks would be like... the standing medium kick or maybe the crouching medium punch... i don't know her frame data that well tho... that could be tweaked i guess, to make only the heavies combos into it... but i sorta want Pierre to be able to combo into at least the light dankick from a medium... i dunno tho...
Honda's normals actually come with an overhead (downforward+HK) in SSF4:AE2012... Rose's do not (more defensive, ya know) also Honda's Sumo Splash can lead to mixup & can sometimes be safe on block... Deejay's Upkicks are not mixup tools, plus they're almost NEVER safe on block (in SSF4:AE2012, at least)... they're strictly defensive and as Pierre's only good GET OFF ME move, besides maybe his command grab... they're pretty easy to bait with empty-jumps (also, do a crossup on wakeup when Pierre has no meter for an EX DeeJay Upkick, and i think he will pretty much have to block it)
and even if you still think it's overpowered... maybe the hitboxes (priority, invincibility) and the frame data and damage could all be slightly tweaked to be less overpowered... i personally think that its quite easy to take an overpowered character and nerf them to the bottom tier, without even getting rid of a single tool... you just make them less (or more) effective until the balance seems fair... OCCASIONALLY you need to get rid of one of a character's moves but it usually just makes fans angry!
still, i agree that this character is basically a dream character for me... but that doesn't mean it has to be a badly balanced character... balance is sometimes more complicated then just the "theory" of how moves will work... Everyone thought Dudley would be top tier in SSF4, but he ended up pretty mediocre, & in SSF4:AE2012, without even nerfing him that much, he's practically bottom 5... I personally believe Pierre would play sort of like Sagat, except instead of his opponent having to block a 5-frame uppercut when they get close, they have to jump a 2-frame command grab (and i would be fine with the grab being slowed to 5-frames, honestly)... I mean, you might end up being right (that he's impossible to be balanced) if they somehow actually put him in Ultra Street Fighter 4... but i personally feel like it could definitely work in Ultra Street Fighter 4, as a non-OP character... but that's just my opinion...
So, when i thought this guy up (a French-Canadian Street Fighter character who's a lumberjack with a defensive charge-grappler moveset, sort of like a combination of DeeJay & E.Honda but with some other subtle changes), i started out with this guy's special moves, but today i decided to make a little drawing of him in photoshop to make it easier to imagine. Hope you guys like it!
_______________________
Original Forum Post:
So, i said in the "Make a character based on yourself" thread that i had an idea for a Canadian Lumberjack character. Now, this character is basically very similar to E.Honda in terms of special moves, but he has a few subtle differences that would make him slightly more interesting in some ways... For a long time i have wished E.Honda's Hundred Hand Slap was a quarter circle command or something equally easy (i play on pad, and i have trouble doing piano inputs, which are necessary for the harder Hundred Hand Slap combos)... That little change would make me drop T.Hawk immediately and start maining E.Honda... But if i'm thinking up changes for a character, i might as well make him his own complete original character, right?
Basic move attributes are based on Super Street Fighter 4: Arcade Edition unless otherwise stated.
Rose's normals (basically shoto normals with a command slide and a long-range heavy kick. Lots of special cancellable moves, because its more satisfying that way, for me anyways)
DeeJay's Super (except instead of rhythmic kicking it's savage drunk handswipes sorta like Luigi's running attack in Smash Bros)
Dan's Ultras (basically, a short range attack/grab like Dan's Ultra 1 and a defensive projectile like Dan's ultra 2)
DeeJay's Projectile and anti-air Upkicks (these are the focus of his gameplay as a defensive character. The reason he is able to shoot a projectile is, he's used his axe in the Canadian forest so much that he can chop the air itself with his bare hands. His projectile is actually even slower than DeeJay's so that he can be more defensive or even set up pressure on wakeup)
Dan's Dankyakyu kicks (but less safe on block and less damage. His main combo ender and pressure tool. Being able to pick between 1, 2 or 3 kicks based on which button is awesome so i'm keeping that the same as it is with Dan)
T.Hawk's command grab (but with him rolling his opponent like a quebec log roller instead of spinning him in the air like t hawk. Also, less range and damage than t.hawk's grab)
Leaving the opponent far away after a grab would actually be advantageous for this lumberjack character because he's mainly a defensive character just with grappler abilities. I like the idea of a character similar to deejay or guile also having a special move for ending combos as well as a command grab. It's sort of like an even more defensive version of E. Honda, as i said before.
Also, i think his name should be Pierre.
Editor's Note: What follows is actually a pretty valid complaint based on what i said so, i included it here:
SOMEBODY FROM THE FORUM wrote:
I don't think normals such as Rose's would do with a lumberjack. He should get normal moves of his own. Also, lots of special-cancellable moves would be asking for less damage since he could heavily capitalize on just one heavy kick. And if it has that much range, his pressure (with Projectile OR Dan Kick) would be extreme, even more so in the corner.
I don't really like the idea of a defensive character, but I also think that your character half-fails at being defensive, especially with his :kick-hard: special cancel antics. As for being even more defensive than a defensive character, this is not a good idea. I'd suggest a buff to Honda rather than make a different character.
Also, why try and give purposed combo-enders to characters like Guile and Dee Jay? Wonder why they don't have them? (Dee Jay even has his :joystick-charge-left: :joystick-right: :kick: so he's out of the picture)
I sound extremely depreciative but the fact is you're only thinking of a character with a buff and an outward image you like. I'm afraid you're straying on the Gary Stu line here, Bibby.
Here is my response:
when i said he should have Rose's normals, including the long range kick and a lot of special cancellable moves, i didn't actually mean that the heavy kick was cancellable from long range... Rose can't do that in SSF4:AE, she can only cancel her heavy kick when it's the up-close version... i wanted Pierre to be the same in that area... i guess i didn't really make that very clear... I genuinely apologize for that because that might have tinted your view of my character...
Also, i don't mean any offense, but i don't understand what you're saying about him being a Mary Sue kind of character in any way other than the heavy-kick cancellable thing that was just a misunderstanding... were you saying replacing E.Honda's headbutt with a projectile & his main combo tool with a slightly easier combo tool is also overpowered? i mean, you gotta remember: E.Honda can combo from his Hundred Hand Slap into other things (including a jab into another Hundred Hand Slap or even a super combo...) Dan's Dankyakyu kicks not only end the combo (when done on the ground at least, i think), but you can only combo into it from heavy normals or some rare medium normals (in SSF4:AE2012 at least)... i'm guessing the only mediums that Rose has that would combo into dankicks would be like... the standing medium kick or maybe the crouching medium punch... i don't know her frame data that well tho... that could be tweaked i guess, to make only the heavies combos into it... but i sorta want Pierre to be able to combo into at least the light dankick from a medium... i dunno tho...
Honda's normals actually come with an overhead (downforward+HK) in SSF4:AE2012... Rose's do not (more defensive, ya know) also Honda's Sumo Splash can lead to mixup & can sometimes be safe on block... Deejay's Upkicks are not mixup tools, plus they're almost NEVER safe on block (in SSF4:AE2012, at least)... they're strictly defensive and as Pierre's only good GET OFF ME move, besides maybe his command grab... they're pretty easy to bait with empty-jumps (also, do a crossup on wakeup when Pierre has no meter for an EX DeeJay Upkick, and i think he will pretty much have to block it)
and even if you still think it's overpowered... maybe the hitboxes (priority, invincibility) and the frame data and damage could all be slightly tweaked to be less overpowered... i personally think that its quite easy to take an overpowered character and nerf them to the bottom tier, without even getting rid of a single tool... you just make them less (or more) effective until the balance seems fair... OCCASIONALLY you need to get rid of one of a character's moves but it usually just makes fans angry!
still, i agree that this character is basically a dream character for me... but that doesn't mean it has to be a badly balanced character... balance is sometimes more complicated then just the "theory" of how moves will work... Everyone thought Dudley would be top tier in SSF4, but he ended up pretty mediocre, & in SSF4:AE2012, without even nerfing him that much, he's practically bottom 5... I personally believe Pierre would play sort of like Sagat, except instead of his opponent having to block a 5-frame uppercut when they get close, they have to jump a 2-frame command grab (and i would be fine with the grab being slowed to 5-frames, honestly)... I mean, you might end up being right (that he's impossible to be balanced) if they somehow actually put him in Ultra Street Fighter 4... but i personally feel like it could definitely work in Ultra Street Fighter 4, as a non-OP character... but that's just my opinion...
Category Artwork (Digital) / Portraits
Species Human
Gender Male
Size 971 x 1280px
Comments